Gary O’Donoghue - If I knew then what I know now; disabled people reflect on their careers

RICHARD>>:So Gary is one of the BBC's political correspondents covering political news from radio and television. He has been a reporter for Today on Radio 4, for the World Service, he has been a presenter and a reporter on the BBC2 disability magazine From the Edge, and he sometimes presents In Touch on Radio 4. Of course, he is a British news specialist, but he has also reported from Europe and Africa, Asia, United States, a documentary maker, and he has made some films on current affairs for BBC television in particular. He has been blind, totally blind, since childhood, it is a great pleasure to have him here with us this evening, Gary.

GARY>>: Thank you. Thanks Richard. That's a very flattering introduction. I'm always slightly surprised when people talk about my career, because rather like that sort of definition of history, it feels to me like just one thing after the other. There has been no real plan, and I certainly didn't plan to be a journalist. Can everyone hear me by the way? Is that okay? I rather sort of fell into journalism, but I'm pleased that the theme of tonight is careers and work, because as time has gone on, I have become more and more convinced that work is the key way for disabled people to get economic and social independence, and I think there is actually a pretty big consensus now politically about that, and amongst some of the organisations in the third sector about the importance of work. That can mean all sorts of things, and it doesn't have to mean nine to five, five days a week, et cetera, but I think it is a key thing, and the statistic I always bring to these events, which is the one that the Royal National Institute for Blind people quotes, is that the blind people of working age, two-thirds are unemployed. Two-thirds. 66%. That, to me, seems like a scandal, and it is something we need to work on, and it is something that people like me, who are lucky enough to be in employment, have a duty, I think, really, to try and spread the good practice, the experience, the tricks of the trade, in the sense of trying to hold down a job when you have some kind of disability.

I'm going to talk about just a couple of quick areas where I think it has an impact. I'm going to talk about the change in nature of the technology and how that has affected my work. I want to talk about what I call, "covering up", which is the extent to which, over the years, I felt my attitude change to the way I present my disability, how much I try and cover it up, how much I try and acknowledge it, not just, you know, in the workplace but on air as well, on screen in particular when it comes to television, and I will talk to you a little bit about my current role as well.

But just as a sort of brief summary, I did a degree in modern languages and philosophy, which is absolutely no use whatsoever for a career in journalism, but I did spend quite a lot of my student days working for Radio 4, sort of sneaking up to London, doing little bits of reporting for the In Touch programme, and that sort of thing, and that set me in pretty good stead. I did apply to the BBC when I left Oxford for their prestigious news trainee scheme, and I got absolutely summarily rejected by that, despite the fact that I had quite a lot of experience by that time, and indeed some work had been on air by that stage. It was my first real experience, I suppose, of a sort of blanket rejection based on disability, you know, one person who said quite openly at this stage, and this is before the DDA, who said, "I don't understand how a blind person could be a reporter". It was as simple as that, and he held the keys to the door, and he said no, twice, in fact.

I didn't really want to take no for an answer, as you can imagine, so I did the thing I have always done in these circumstances, or tried to do, which is to find another route, and find another individual who, I will use the phrase, "who gets it", and it is a very difficult phrase to explain, and what I mean by that is there are people in all organisations who you will find who have an instinctive understanding of disability. They may not know the detail, they may not know how you need helping or what kind of help you need, but they are prepared to take a chance, and I was lucky enough to persuade a few people to take a chance, and got in a different route into the BBC, and began my work at Westminster and then, as Richard was saying, I went to the Today programme, although my first day on the Today programme, the features editor, I suspect, in an attempt to over-compensate for not sort of focusing on my disability, asked me if I wanted to do a bungee jump off Chelsea Bridge. I did say no. I drew the line.

My career progressed pretty well. One of the things that’s been a constant changing element of that is the technology. I do remember at the Today programme when I was given a story or a feature to do, going to the cuttings library which we had in those days and these nice people would photocopy lots and lots of old articles for your research, and use great A3 sheets and say, "Here you go", and of course I couldn't read a word of it and I would end up begging and borrowing time from researchers on the programme to get this stuff read. It would put me a day behind every other reporter. In fact, I remember one girlfriend I had, making her sit up in bed reading these damned cuttings. I think that may have been why she left shortly afterwards, but who can tell. Technology has changed in a huge way for visually impaired people. Now I can use the computer to research my cuttings online, I no longer have to remember all the phone numbers in my head because I have a phone that I can use in the same way as everyone else, and that has been absolutely transformative. It has made my job a lot easier. It is still, I think, slower for someone in my position, but not all that much slower in terms of getting access to information. Journalism is a pretty good career, good job, trade, for a blind person, because essentially it is just talking to people. That's really what it boils down to. I mean you can make all sorts of claims about it being a profession but really it is a trade and it is a trade based on talking to people most of the time. That's pretty easy if you are blind, because you spend your life talking your way around the world. So that what’s been a good career for me for the last 20 years.

I think, you know, in the last few years, it has developed significantly. I have had to take on the challenges of television, and I have had to ask myself quite difficult questions like to what extent do I want to appear disabled when I am on television, or to what extent do I want to appear, you know, as normal, in quotes, as possible? It has been a really difficult internal sort of battle, and the conclusion I think I have come to is that my job is as a communicator, that's what I'm paid to do. Explain, analyse, elucidate, tease out all the political themes of the day, et cetera. If my disability would get in the way of doing that then I wouldn't be doing my job. What I mean by that is for example, before I go on air I ask the camera man for what I call an eye line to make sure I'm actually looking down the barrel of the camera. Now I don't regard that as a concession, I don't regard that as trying to cover up, I regard that as a means to make sure I can communicate. However, if I'm filmed walking down the road with an interviewee as part of a cut story I'm doing, I would have my stick with me, so I would carry it. So it is horses for courses, but I think I have got to a position in my world where I'm pretty content with the way I handle my disability. Not everyone agrees. Some editors have said to me they don't like me reading braille on air, they don't like the look of that, they think it is distracting, and that's fine, and I'm glad they are confident enough to raise those issues but these are very, very tricky issues, but you would be surprised, actually, how generous the public is about is about these things. They may look twice the first time but the second time they don't look twice and they feel they know you a bit more than some of my other colleagues, I’m much more recognisable. That's one of the other things I was going to say, is that you've got to use what you've got. I don't mean that to sound brutal or cynical, but in a competitive environment like the one I work in, you know, everyone is trying to find a thing that makes them stand out, and there are ways that, you know, your disability can make you stand out. You are not just another one of those white blokes from Chiswick on the telly. These things matter. That's really what I wanted to say to you.

The other thing on the technology side which I will just add, is that I have found over the years that it pays to be sort of your own IT consultant. Not to rely on organisations, big or small, to understand your particular technological needs. It may mean, you may not be a geek and I don't think I am a geek, but over the years I have found that it pays dividends to understand the stuff I use, and a to be able to fix the things when they are sort of, you know, when the basic things go wrong, or at least understand, because no matter how much organisations try, they cannot really understand how a blind person uses a computer, really. It is not really something you can show someone or teach someone, so I would urge anyone who is getting into that world, to have an understanding of your own equipment, to seek out the people who get it, and hang on to them, and hang on to them with dear life, and this is the most difficult thing, I think, is when to judge, when something is getting in your way because of your disability, rather than your inability. That's a hugely problematic area, because you will come across people who will stand in your way because of what you are, and you will find times where you think that is happening, but it might just be you. It might just be you not being up to it, being too lazy, not putting the work in, and having the sort of self knowledge to identify those moments will, I think, stand you in good stead over the years. I hope that has helped, and I'm very happy to answer any of your questions but I'm conscious of the time so I'm going to let Niall here carry on.

RICHARD>>:Gary thank you very much. That was hugely interesting and thought provoking.